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Thread: Is E-juice Worse then Cigarettes?

  1. #1
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    Default Is E-juice Worse then Cigarettes?

    This was buried deep in a wafflejuice thread and thought it deserved its own thread....some ingredients mention Harmful to skin, toxic, harmful if swallowed, irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin Etc... Do we really know what goes into this E-juice or is it possible some of the *New* chemicals we're taking in with flavoring are just as dangerous or More so the the Chemicals we were taking in smoking??

    Quote Originally Posted by damitintrblagain View Post
    Off a Dekang RY4 bottle, carrying the warning "Very toxic by inhalation, in contact with the skin and if swallowed" and bearing a skull and crossbones symbol, the ingredients are:

    Propylene glycol (75%) 3-methylcyclopentane-1.2-dione (2.5%) 1-malic acid (3%) 2.3.5.6 tetramethylpyrazine (1.5%) 2.3.5-trimethylpyrazine (0.3%) beta-dainescenaone (?) (0.2%) acetylpyrazine (0.2%) 2-acetylpyradine,ethanol (10%) rhodium (0.3%) vanillin (2.5%) ethyl acetate (0.5%) ethyl maltol (1.0%) 2-methyl-butyric acid (0.5%)

    Googling the components I find:

    Propylene glycol: Obvious.

    3-methylcyclopentane-1.2-dione (aka Cyclotene): Flavour: caramel; maple; smoky; coffee; nutty; bready; liquorice. Safe.

    Malic acid: Found in all fruits. Taste: mellow, smooth, persistent sourness. Universal flavour enhancer. Healthy.

    2.3.5.6 tetramethylpyrazine: Used in flavour concentrates. Dependant on manufacturer, tastes like: Cocoa, roasted peanuts, Coffee, fermented soybean and/or chocolate and is used to flavour these products. Safety rating: Harmful if swallowed.

    2.3.5-trimethylpyrazine: Same as above plus flavour: Caramel, Baked potato and peanut butter. Safety rating: Toxic if swallowed, irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin. Flammable.

    Beta-dainescenaone: That’s what it looked like after I messed juice on the label, but probably beta-damascenone. Flavour: Intensely fruity odour with plum, berry, sugary and rose nuances. Also: woody, floral, herbal, green and fruity, spicy tobacco, apple; herbaceous; nutty; citrus; smoky; wine-like. Safety rating: Irritant. Irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

    2-acetylpyradine ethanol: Flavour: Sweet, nutty, tobacco, popcorn. Safety rating: Toxic if swallowed, irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

    Rhodium: Flavour: Sweet floral woody. Safety rating: Irritant. Irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

    Vanillin: Synthetic vanilla.

    Ethyl acetate: Used in flavour concentrates and perfumes. Sweet, fruity, vinegary smell. Found in wines. Also a flammable solvent. Low toxicity.(This one is actually used in SOLVENTS)!!

    Ethyl maltol: Flavor enhancer used in wine, chocolate, vanilla, fruit flavoured drinks, pastries, candy, tobacco, cosmetics, and medicines. Used because it tends to mask bad tasting chemicals, and heightens richness and creaminess. Safe.

    2-methyl-butyric acid: Flavour: apple; apricot; cheese; chocolate; grape; fruity; pineapple; sour; strawberry; woody; wine-like. Safety rating: Corrosive: Harmful to skin and if swallowed.

    http://www.vapersforum.com/showpost....8&postcount=18
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    Well, I vape nothing but VG with flavoring (usually LorAnn's, but sometimes Capella's). A touch of Everclear to thin it down. That's it! I DIY my juice and I really doubt the flavoring has anything harmful. The VG is USP, Kosher.
    There's my 2 cent's worth.
    Doctor Jello will see you now. Mwahahaha. You want me to squirt this WHERE?????

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    http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguide...cognition.html

    Effects on Humans: Ethyl acetate is an irritant of the eyes and upper respiratory tract at concentrations above 400 ppm [NLM 1992]. Unacclimated human volunteers experienced nose and throat irritation at 400 ppm, but no adverse symptoms were found in acclimated workers exposed to 375 to 1,500 ppm ethyl acetate for several months. Ethyl acetate occasionally causes sensitization, with inflammation of the mucous membranes and eczema of the skin [Hathaway et al. 1991]. Workers exposed chronically to ethyl acetate concentrations ranging from .015 to .05 mg/m(3) and .02 to .08 mg/m(3) amyl acetate in air showed only redness of the conjunctiva [Grant 1986]. One death ascribed to the use of a lacquer solvent containing 80 percent ethyl acetate has been reported in a tank painter, but no details are given [ACGIH 1991].
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightRider View Post
    Well, I vape nothing but VG with flavoring (usually LorAnn's, but sometimes Capella's). A touch of Everclear to thin it down. That's it! I DIY my juice and I really doubt the flavoring has anything harmful. The VG is USP, Kosher.
    There's my 2 cent's worth.
    What LorAnn's flavor are you using right now? i think you'd be surprised to find some of the Chemicals that are in it

    http://www.vapersforum.com/showpost....8&postcount=18
    I hate watch they remember me that very soon I could be Love impotente ~ Liscab

    Bartleby, Cisco Laser Mod, Lil Chuck, Xhaler, Tornado, Nuck Fistpack, The Storm, Mr. Puffer, DSE905 v2, GG Slim, BillyBoy Dual Atty Passthrough(WOOT!)

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    As TropicalBob points out, the flavorings in PVs are the great unknown.

    However, ANYTHING could be toxic if consumed in large amounts. I hypothesize that most of these ingredients are in such low amounts that the body would be able to process them easily without reaching toxic levels. The flavorings make up a small percentage of the liquid - only tiny amounts are needed to add a lot of flavor.

    I had a chuckle at the "This one is actually used in SOLVENTS!!" comment. Just like PG is used in antifreeze, lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridewithme38 View Post
    What LorAnn's flavor are you using right now? i think you'd be surprised to find some of the Chemicals that are in it
    Twix made up some Blackberry and Brandy flavor (Blackberry Brandy) that is really good.
    Under the circumstances, I can't really think that in the quantities we vape of them, vs. ingesting them in (possibly) MUCH higher quantities orally that they are to any serious degree, harmful.
    Doctor Jello will see you now. Mwahahaha. You want me to squirt this WHERE?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristin View Post
    As TropicalBob points out, the flavorings in PVs are the great unknown.

    However, ANYTHING could be toxic if consumed in large amounts. I hypothesize that most of these ingredients are in such low amounts that the body would be able to process them easily without reaching toxic levels. The flavorings make up a small percentage of the liquid - only tiny amounts are needed to add a lot of flavor.

    I had a chuckle at the "This one is actually used in SOLVENTS!!" comment. Just like PG is used in antifreeze, lol!
    This is a common misconception that comes from constant misinformation...what the FDA found in E-cigarette's was "diethylene glycol"(DEG) which IS a major ingredient of Anti-freeze and what was listed in their report...some how i'm guessing through something akin to the "Telephone game" it got change to Propylene glycol...
    http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/S.../ucm173327.htm

    Heres some info from the DEG Wiki

    Despite the discovery of DEG’s toxicity in 1937 and its involvement in mass poisonings around the world, the information available regarding human toxicity is limited. Some authors suggest that minimum toxic dose is estimated at 0.14 mg/kg of body weight and lethal dose between 1 and 1.63 g/kg of body weight,[5] while some suggest that the LD50 in adults is of ~1 mL/kg,[1] and other suggest that this is the LD30.[3] Because of its adverse effects on humans, diethylene glycol is not allowed for use in food and drugs. The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.[6]

    Diethylene glycol has moderate acute toxicity in animal experiments. The LD50 for small mammals has been tested at between 2 and 25 g/kg, less toxic than its relative ethylene glycol but still capable of causing toxicity in humans. It appears diethylene glycol is more hazardous to humans than implied by oral toxicity data in laboratory animals.[1]
    I sometimes wonder if the dangers of what we are vaping are being intentionally hidden through misinformation or if we are really just this misinformed

    http://www.vapersforum.com/showpost....8&postcount=18
    I hate watch they remember me that very soon I could be Love impotente ~ Liscab

    Bartleby, Cisco Laser Mod, Lil Chuck, Xhaler, Tornado, Nuck Fistpack, The Storm, Mr. Puffer, DSE905 v2, GG Slim, BillyBoy Dual Atty Passthrough(WOOT!)

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    DEG is sweet and tastes good, but will kill you. That is why some sick fucks will put it out to kill dogs. Dogs love the flavor....the first/last time.
    Doctor Jello will see you now. Mwahahaha. You want me to squirt this WHERE?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridewithme38 View Post
    This is a common misconception that comes from constant misinformation...what the FDA found in E-cigarette's was "diethylene glycol"(DEG) which IS a major ingredient of Anti-freeze and what was listed in their report...some how i'm guessing through something akin to the "Telephone game" it got change to Propylene glycol...
    http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/S.../ucm173327.htm

    Heres some info from the DEG Wiki



    I sometimes wonder if the dangers of what we are vaping are being intentionally hidden through misinformation or if we are really just this misinformed
    Ride, I'm well aware of what the FDA had issues with. But the ignorant people DO mix up PG and DEG (since PG is used to make some brands of antifreeze less toxic, so PG is an ingredient in a lot of antifreeze, along with DEG) and use the antifreeze argument - that's why I said "PG" and not DEG. It's not MY misconception, but I was trying to make a point.

    My point was that the OP used the same argument the anti's use against one of the ingredients. The whole "they use that in XXX" argument. Saying "they use that in solvents" is just like saying "they use that in antifreeze." So what??

    Just because something is used in solvents doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Alcohol is used in some solvents, too. So is water. See my point?

    DEG is bad stuff and shouldn't be found in anything consumed or inhaled by humans. But DEG isn't regularly found in PV liquid, it was found in 1 sample, which I believe was contanimated.
    Last edited by Kristin; 01-14-2010 at 11:33 AM.

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